I am a Jewish student at a Catholic High School and I'm writing a paper on my own religious beliefs. One of the questions is who is Jesus? I don't even believe the guy ever existed but where can I find support for my view that he wasn't anything special. I can't just say I don't believe in Jesus. I need to support my view. Thanks.
The first thing you have to recognize whenever you are discussing the Jewish position on Jesus is that it is the Christians who must prove their case, not the Jews. The Jewish religion existed for thousands of years before Christianity, and Christianity accepts the truth of the Torah and other Jewish Scriptures as Divinely revealed truth. As such, there is no need to enter into any debate regarding the truth of Judaism per se when dealing with Christians. However, Christians maintain that their god, Jesus, came to the world and annulled the laws of the Torah, replacing them with a "New Covenant" that demands belief in Jesus. This is an extraordinary and untenable claim on several grounds:
(Just as an aside, some may respond that the same accusation could be leveled at Judaism. However, this is incorrect. Judaism, alone among all religions, is based upon events that happened in the presence of hundreds of thousands of eyewitnesses, primarily the Exodus and the Sinai Revelation. These events, which are the foundation stones of Judaism, were witnessed by the entire Jewish people and qualify as objective historical events. No other religion claims to have had similar experiences, because such claims would be obviously false. The Jews, however, can make this claim because these events really happened (as any Christian or Muslim will agree).)
Clearly, Jesus did not accomplish any of these things. In the past I have encountered Christians who have argued that Jesus has not failed to fulfill these conditions since he will fulfill them at the time of the "Second Coming". This is a meaningless argument. As the conditions clearly have not been fulfilled, there is no reason to assume he is the Messiah simply because some of his followers say he will do so at some undetermined point in the future. I could as easily make the same argument for myself, I will fulfill the conditions in the future so believe I am the Messiah now.
For all these reasons, and others as well, Judaism cannot accept the claims of Christianity. As these opinions are all firmly based in the Bible, which Christians claim to believe in, it is upon them to prove beyond a doubt that their god is a true god and not simply an idol. They have never done this because it cannot be done. Jesus was clearly not God, not the Messiah, and not a prophet.
Nevertheless, the opinion of most historical scholars, including religious Jews, is that Jesus was an actual historical personage though he may not have lived at the time the New Testament claims. In any event, whether he ever lived is very secondary, the tales told of him in the New Testament are almost certainly all fictional and are completely unsupported by any other historical text from that period.
You can find useful information on this topic in a book published by NCSY (National Conference of Synagogue Youth) and Artscroll titled "The Real Messiah?" by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan. This book was written as a response to Christian missionary activity and deals with the claims of Christianity.
I am currently in the ninth grade in a public high school. Today in school I found out that once a week, a group of Christians gather in the front of the school once a week (by the flag pole), hold hands in a circle and pray.
There was an adult with them, who I was told was a minister, but I am not sure of it. Anyway, I found prayer to be offensive in school, even if it was voluntary. I decided to write a letter to the Principal expressing my views against this type of prayer in a public school.
I was wondering if you could help me out by giving me information against Christian prayer in public schools. The reason that this probably bothers me so much is because I am Jewish, and it is very uncomfortable to be entering the school building while people are praying. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
There is no justifiable reason to oppose these prayer groups. While we, as Jews, certainly disagree with Christianity on many important issues, we must recognize that freedom of religious expression is a fundamental right in the United States. Just as we would not want Christians to oppose Jewish expressions of religion, we should not be opposing their religious expression. Unless their religious expression directly effects you in a negative manner, they have a Constitutional right to pray to their god.
Furthermore, as distant as Christianity is from Judaism, it is still far superior to the atheistic and amoral ideology which has begun to dominate much of our society. I believe that such prayer groups should be encouraged. The attempt to connect with the Creator through prayer raises a person up, and encourages us to change our behavior in a positive way. Such groups serve a very good purpose in encouraging American youth to view themselves as moral human beings.
I am rather surprised that you find these groups so disturbing. Perhaps a better solution for your problem would be to start a similar prayer group for Jewish students. The group could meet at a different location and would perhaps somewhat counterbalance the specifically Christian dominance of these prayer groups, while complementing their positive aspects.
What are some of the basic teachings of the Jews that are different from the Christian religions?
I suggest you read the translation of the 13 Foundations of Judaism on my site. Many of your questions will thereby answer themselves.
Some of the basic differences between Judaism and Christianity (please note that different Christian sects may differ with regards to certain issues discussed here):
There are many more differences, but these points illustrate that there is a major theological gap between the two religions.
I have been reading your Ask Lazer Archives today, with great interest, and came across the question about the differences between Judaism and Christianity and noticed some things that aren't quite true. You write in number 3, "Judaism believes all the laws of the Bible are eternal and immutable, Christianity believes that Jesus ended, or at least changed, the binding nature of Biblical law." This is incorrect. Christians believe that Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice for the atonement of sin.
The second statement that I found not to be true is, "Judaism believes that sins can be atoned for through repentance, Christianity believes that repentance accomplishes nothing without belief in Jesus, and many groups believe that with such belief repentance is actually unnecessary." We believe that if one portion of the law is broken, then the whole law is broken. We then must repent of our sin and seek atonement from God. The belief in Jesus is that He is the Atoning sacrifice. He died once for all sin, and no other sacrifice must be given.
The third thing that I found not to be quite true is, "Judaism believes that Satan is a servant of God, entirely subservient to His will, most Christians believe that the Devil is an enemy of God's who struggles with God for power in the world." What we believe is this: In the garden when God walked with man, God gave man dominion over the Earth and everything on it. When man sinned he gave up his authority to the Devil, because man was no longer righteous. We believe that the Devil can do nothing to man with out God's permission as described in the book of Job. We also believe that when the Messiah (Jesus) died for all sin, he took back the authority that man gave up to the Devil and now through his atoning sacrifice we have that authority once again.
I wrote that Christianity believes that Jesus ended or changed the binding nature of Biblical law. You say this is untrue. Are you saying that a Jewish Christian would be bound by all the Biblical laws, such as the dietary requirements, the obligation to wear tzitzis and tefillin, circumcision, the prohibition against lighting a fire on the Sabbath (the seventh day of the week), and the prohibition against intermarriage with non-Jews? If you do not believe that a Jewish Christian would be obligated in all of these things as well as the many other Biblical laws, then you cannot claim that you believe the binding nature of Biblical law has remained unchanged. (I fail to see what the supposedly atoning death of Jesus has to do with this issue.)
Secondly, I wrote that Christianity believes that repentance cannot atone for sins without belief in Jesus. You responded that Jesus "is the Atoning sacrifice... and no other sacrifice must be given." So then you believe that without belief in Jesus atonement cannot be achieved. Correct? Judaism believes that repentance can achieve atonement without any sacrifice whatsoever, and certainly without belief in Jesus. Is this different from Christianity or not?
Finally, you took exception with the distinction I made between the general Christian belief in the status of Satan versus Judaism. As alluded to in the language I used in this regard ("most Christians"), the status of Satan within Christianity does appear to be a matter of some dispute. Nevertheless, from my research it appears that most major Christian sects maintain that Satan is an enemy of God - who has little, if any, power over those who believe in Jesus. Judaism, however, teaches that Satan - like all the angels - is a willing servant of God who happily does the bidding of God and nothing else. Christian sects generally maintain that Satan rebelled against God; Judaism considers such a belief absurd. Do you believe that Satan is a servant of God? If you don't then your belief differs from Judaism.
Can a Jewish person be a Christian? Does a Jewish person lose their standing as Jewish if they become a Christian?
A Jew is not permitted become a Christian. However, if a Jew does convert to Christianity, he remains a Jew but loses his rights within the Jewish community and is to be treated as a non-Jew (i.e. he cannot be counted for a prayer quorum, be called up to the Torah, etc.). This continues to be true until he repents from his apostasy.
I was wondering what a Jewish person thinks about Jesus. Not wanting to stereotype all Jewish thinking or anything. Does a Jewish person think that Jesus was a real person, or the Messiah, or just an imagined being, or anything else?
Judaism does not give Jesus any stature whatsoever. He was certainly not God incarnate (such a belief is heretical to Judaism), the son-of-God (the entire concept of a literal son-of-God is rejected by Judaism), the messiah, or even a prophet. As far as Judaism is concerned the New Testament and all of its teachings (excluding, of course, the many teachings taken from Judaism) are no more significant than the writings and teachings of any other religion, like the Koran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Mormon, or even Greek or Nordic mythology. While they may be of interest for historical or sociological studies they carry no religious significance.
As far as what an individual Jew might believe about the historical veracity of Jesus as an actual person, it is really up to the individual. My personal opinion is that Jesus probably was an actual historical figure.
Do you think that Jesus could have possibly been the Messiah. If not I would like to know who you say he is.
No, I do not think that Jesus could have been the Messiah. He fulfilled none of the conditions which the Messiah has to fulfill. Furthermore, he preached heretical beliefs, something which proves beyond a doubt that he could not possibly be the Messiah. He was just a man who started a cult which deified him.
In your reply you said that Jesus taught some heretical teachings that is why you believe he could not be the Messiah. I was wondering what he taught that was heretical? For some time I have been studying the new testament and I couldn't see anything that he taught that was heretical. I look forward to hearing from you in response.
The fact that Jesus' teachings were heretical only proves the point beyond any conceivable doubt, it isn't really necessary. Obviously, the fact that a man's teachings are not heretical would not prove that he is the Messiah, if that would be so then I could argue that I am the Messiah, since my teachings are not heretical. Jesus did not fulfill any of the requirements for the Messiah as defined in Jewish law. Briefly, these are:
As to which of Jesus' teachings were heretical, that can be a tricky question to answer. Christianity is an amazingly diverse religion, and each group claims that it has the only true knowledge of Jesus' teachings. So if I point at, say, the mainstream Christian belief that Jesus was literally God Incarnate, or that he was the literal son of God (i.e. he had no human father), I am certain to encounter (and, in fact, have encountered) Christians who do not believe this to be one of Jesus' teachings, and they will claim that therefore their version of Jesus' teachings is not heretical.
Therefore, the simplest way to deal with this is to ask you, what do you believe to be Jesus' teachings? Obviously, we are dealing here with teachings which Jesus originated himself, teaching about 'love your fellow' and such is pretty easy given that such teachings were around for a long time before Jesus was. What teachings would you say are uniquely Jesus'? Once we clarify that, then we can deal with whether such teachings constitute heresy.
In the past I have encountered Christians who have argued that Jesus has not failed to fulfill these conditions since he will fulfill them at the time of the "Second Coming". This is a meaningless argument,
as the conditions have not been fulfilled, there is no reason to assume he is the Messiah simply because some of his followers say he will at some undetermined point in the future. Again, I could as easily make the same argument for myself, I will fulfill the conditions in the future so believe I am the Messiah now.
Why is Jesus not considered to be the only Begotten Son of God ?
The entire concept of God having an "only Begotten Son of God" is rejected by Judaism. While the Torah frequently refers to righteous people and the entire Jewish nation as the son or sons of God, this is never meant to be understood literally. Furthermore, even if one wished to accept the preposterous notion that God would literally father a child, this would have no bearing on the claims of Jesus and his followers. The claim that one is "the son of God" or "God incarnate" or just plain God has been made by countless individuals throughout history. Jesus' claim is no better than any of the others. It is clear that Jesus' himself was not even a particularly successful "miracle man" (like many modern cult leaders and evangelists) since none of the supposed miracles mentioned in the NT are mentioned in any contemporary historical works (the supposed mention in Josephus being a later insertion). Most of these stories were probably invented after he died.
One question on a point that you made (in the previous answer)- If Jesus is no different than the rest of the Messianic imposters, then why does the whole world base TIME on His birth, death, and resurrection? That is, the year, BC, Anno Domini, etc. This seems to be a significant difference between the way that the Messianic imposters and Jesus are viewed by the world.
First of all, practically no modern historian or theologian believes that the Christian chronological count is accurate regarding the birth of Jesus. So while the system is Christian, it really has nothing to do with Jesus.
Secondly, the Christian calendar is not the only chronological system used in the world. There is the Jewish system (Aera Mundi) which counts from Creation, the Islamic system which counts from Mohammed's flight from Mecca, and the Hindu system which counts from... uh, something else. While it is true that the Christian system is the most commonly used throughout the world, this is only due to the political dominance of Christian Europe over the past centuries. Japan and China, for example, only accepted the Gregorian calendar in the last century. Of course, in our age of extensive record keeping and computers the Gregorian calendar may well remain the standard even if Christianity itself ceases to be a viable force. Just look at the difficulties being raised by the year 2000 for computers! And that is just from adding an extra two digits to the existing system; changing systems entirely would be a real pain in the neck.
Ultimately, your argument actually amounts to nothing more than might makes right, i.e. since Christians are more numerous and/or powerful than other faiths (and were therefore successful in establishing their calendar worldwide), they must be right. Of course, such an argument has any number of flaws (imagine if the early Christians had accepted such an argument from the Romans). The current usage of the Christian calendar has no more theological significance than the use of the Greek and Roman calendars did in their times of power.
I don't know if you can answer this, but I am wondering about the idea of atonement in Judaism. I know that the High Priest would accept the sacrifices of the people each year. These sacrifices were meant for atonement (Atonement comes through the blood). So, is it correct that Yeshua (Jesus) was the final atonement since he gave his life? I'm not sure what to believe, but the Bible says that about atonement through blood.
Before we get to your main question I think we should clarify some points here.
Jeremiah 7 condemns in the strongest terms those who would think that the sacrifices are the essence of God's service. "For I did not speak to your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices; But this thing I commanded them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people; and walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you."
With this as an introduction we can now come to your main question:
"So, is it correct that Yeshua was the final atonement since he gave his life? I'm not sure what to believe, but the Bible says that about atonement through blood."
It is a basic premise of Christianity that atonement can only come through the death of Jesus. This premise is utterly rejected by Judaism for many reasons. Asides from the fact that, as we said earlier, Judaism has never restricted atonement as available only through sacrifices, even if a sacrifice might be necessary that would not prove that Jesus was that sacrifice. Millions of Jews have been murdered over the millennia, why should the death of a single heretic be of greater significance than the death of any of these loyal, believing Jews?
In summation I quote King David, (Psalms 40:7):
"You do not desire sacrifice and offering; you have dug open my ears; you have not required burnt offering and sin offering."
I also was reading in Daniels writings where he says when the Messiah would come. He said "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks (or as the word should say "Sevens" instead of weeks) and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again...Then after sixty-two groups of seven, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing." This was pointed out to me that this prophecy was prophesied in about 538bc and that the 62 weeks were to start when the temple was commanded to be rebuilt (which took place in 445 b.c.). That would mean that the Messiah would be "cut off" 483 years after 445 b.c. which would make His time of being cut off in 38 AD. My friend also pointed out that the only one who claimed to be the Messiah at this time was Jesus and as a matter of fact Jesus was the only one claiming to be the Messiah within 300 years of this prophesied date. If you read Jewish History, such as the works of Josephus, he even says that Jesus was crucified by the Romans in the 30's.
This is an excellent illustration of the problems with relying exclusively on a translation, particularly a Christian translation.
In the KJV translation, Daniel 9:25-26 is translated: "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
The primary problem here is that the word moshiach (Hebrew for 'anointed') is used for many purposes other than referring to the Messiah. (The capitalization of Messiah is based purely on conjecture, there is no basis from the text to capitalize these words). Messiah simply means one who is anointed. The Christian translations tend to selectively translate the Hebrew word moshiach (or similar constructs) as 'Messiah' (with a capital M) whenever it fits into their interpretation, and otherwise translate it simply as 'anointed'. (Indeed, my understanding is that these verses are the only times that the KJV ever translates moshiach as "Messiah", throughout the rest of the Bible it is translated as "anointed".)
The obvious problem with interpreting these two verses as referring to the same "Messiah" is that they are talking about a time period of about 434 years, so we are forced to say that either one or both of these Messiahs was not what we usually mean when we refer to the Messiah, or that the Messiah lived for over 400 years. Obviously the latter is not true. Therefore it is clear that this standard translation is worthless.
The following is a very brief explanation of these verses starting from verse 24. Please bear in mind that I am nothing close to being an expert on this subject. Also, it is beyond the scope of this letter and of my abilities, to provide every legitimate commentary on these verses, I have chosen those which seem the most easily understood and which seem to be the most broadly accepted:
24: "Seventy groups of seven years (i.e. Sabbatical cycles) have been decreed upon your people and upon your holy city, to terminate transgression, to end sin and to atone for iniquity. To bring everlasting righteousness, to confirm the visions and prophets, and to anoint the Holy of Holies."
The seventy Sabbatical cycles refers to the entire period from the destruction of the first Temple until the destruction of the second. This was a period of about 490 years, or seventy times seven. The suffering during the exile which followed this period would ultimately atone for all of Israel's sins. After that time the Temple would again be rebuilt by the King Messiah. This is further clarified in the following verses.
25: "Know and understand from this, to return and build Jerusalem [will be] until the anointed prince [which is after] seven Sabbatical cycles. And for sixty-two Sabbatical cycles it shall return [to its former state] and be rebuilt, street and moat, and in troubled times."
We have two time periods in this verse, a fifty-two year period (three years got dropped because they don't make up a cycle) from the destruction of the first Temple until the "anointed prince", and a 438 year period (the other four missing years are added on) during which the second Temple would be rebuilt (including the time of its construction).
The commentators explain that the anointed prince referred to here is Cyrus, king of Persia, as we also find in Isaiah 45:1 "Thus saith the Lord to His anointed, to Cyrus,...". Cyrus issued the first decree to allow the rebuilding of the temple fifty-two years after the destruction.
The first Temple was destroyed in the year 3338 (according to the Jewish count from creation, approx. 423 BCE), Cyrus' decree to rebuild was issued in 3390. The second Temple was destroyed in 3828, 438 years later. The period of the second Temple is called troubled times because it was spent almost entirely under the control of foreign empires (Persian, Greek, and Roman).
26: "And after the sixty-two Sabbatical cycles, the anointed will be cut off and cease to be, and the city and the holy [Temple] will be destroyed by the nation of the prince who will come, and it's [the invading nation's] end shall be in a flood [of God's anger]. And until the final war it [Jerusalem] shall remain a desolation."
The commentaries explain the anointed in this verse is King Agrippus, who was the last king of the Jewish kingdom. The verse is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, in about 70 CE.
To clarify some points which you seemed to be mistaken on, it is clearly irrelevant exactly what year the Daniel received this prophecy. The times are all laid out and are historical events. There is no way that the time periods can be interpreted so that verse 26 could possibly be going on the 30's, let alone that the destruction described did not take place at that time anyways.
Your friend's statement, "that the only one who claimed to be the Messiah at this time was Jesus and as a matter of fact Jesus was the only one claiming to be the Messiah within 300 years of this prophesied date" is problematic at best. There have been numerous false Messiahs in Jewish history, most have been forgotten. There may well have been numerous such individuals at that time, there was certainly an abundance of weird sects popping up (like the Essenes and others), many of which had really strange ideas about the Messiah. Jesus is only remembered because he succeeded in starting a new religion (actually because Paul succeeded in starting a new religion in Jesus' name). Furthermore, in the year 132, less than a hundred years after the destruction, a rebellion against the Roman empire was begun. It was led by a man called Bar Kochba and had the support of Israel's leading sages. Bar Kochba was a righteous (though ultimately flawed) man who was completely loyal to Judaism. Rabbi Akiva, the greatest sage of his time, believed him to be the Messiah. Obviously, the rebellion failed but if you are looking for candidates for reincarnation, he comes with much better qualifications than the founder of a small heretical sect.
One final note: The famous paragraph in Josephus (Antiquities XVIII:3) about Jesus is an obvious later insertion. There are numerous indications of this both from the context (completely OUT of context) and the content (only a Christian would write that Jesus was "Christ" and the fulfillment of Divine prophecies, and, as is clear from throughout Josephus' writings, Josephus was not a Christian).
If you wish to find out more I suggest you see the following websites:
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/
http://members.aol.com/TorahYid/
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/
I'd like to know what the term Messianic Jew means. Is it someone who believes in Jesus, and still follows the Old Testament, or is it something else?
This is a complicated question because Messianic Jews will often avoid giving a straight answer on this. Generally a Messianic Jew is a Jew who believes in mainstream Protestant Christian theology and who may or may not maintain a modicum of traditional Jewish practices. In the overwhelming majority of cases these practices only serve as a sort of window dressing for missionary activities. From my observations, a few of these groups seem to be genuinely committed to a sort of pre-Paulian Christianity in which the laws of the Torah are still considered somewhat binding. I have also encountered some Messianic Jews who apparently don't accept the divinity of Jesus but nevertheless consider Jesus to be the Messiah. This obviously places them outside of both Judaism and Christianity. None of these groups follows anything resembling traditional Judaism, though some attempt to make that claim. Such claims can only deceive someone who is completely unfamiliar with the basics of Judaism; unfortunately, that includes most Jews alive today.
I am a Messianic Jew.. a recent believer. I am trying to figure out why other people get really upset about my belief, when I don't get upset about theirs.
There are several reasons why Jews get upset about "Messianic" Jews and it varies from person to person. Obviously, the reason why a secular Jew gets upset about this will not be identical to the reason that an Orthodox Jew, like myself, does. But secular Jews certainly do get upset about it (sometimes it seems that movements like Reform and Reconstructionism have just one commandment, "Thou shalt not become a Christian"). This can be confusing for Orthodox Jews who have difficulty understanding why, after abandoning everything else, this is still an issue for them, but it is.
In any event, I will list some of the reasons that this can be such a sensitive issue even for a secular Jew:
From an Orthodox standpoint it is both simpler and more complex. According to Jewish law a Jew who becomes a Christian is committing a terrible sin, one which is liable for the death penalty. Obviously it disturbs us. In addition, and this is where the complexity comes in, every Jew is spiritually bound to every other. We are a family and more. We are a spiritual unity. Thus, when a Jew leaves Judaism he is making a terrible wound in the "body" of Israel, so to speak. He is cutting himself and his children off from ever having the benefits of his true faith. How can a believing Jew be undisturbed when faced with such a tragedy?
In all likelihood, you grew up in an environment where religion played a very minor role. Thus it is understandable that you would be surprised when suddenly people who never seemed to think much about religion are suddenly getting all excited about it. It is unfortunate, that because you never had the opportunity to learn about your own faith you felt a need to find satisfaction in another. True Judaism has everything a Jew needs. I hope, for your sake and all of ours, that you will give it another chance.
But, as a Messianic Jew, I feel more, not less, Jewish now than I ever was in my life.
Considering that you clearly grew up in an environment that was entirely devoid of anything authentically Jewish, that is not at all surprising. Of course, coming from such an environment you wouldn't have the faintest idea what "feeling Jewish" would mean anyways.
Let me make something clear. You have never known Judaism, felt Judaism, or experienced Judaism. Period. The pseudo-Judaisms which you may have experienced have no more legitimacy than your current pseudo-Judaism.
It was very interesting that the disciples and the original followers of J'shua were all Jewish, and there were debates on whether to allow non Jews in as believers. Maybe, there could have been an organization that was called "Non-Jews for Jesus". So, if this be true, then could the argument be made, Eliezer, taking it all the way back, that you left Judaism.
That is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Jesus and his associates were recognized as renegades from the day they started their messianic cult. They are clearly the ones who left the status quo, not the rest of the Jewish people. Jesus declared himself the Messiah. He wasn't the Messiah nor did he ever do anything which would indicate that he was. What Jesus did is similar to what happened in the second half of the 17th century with the false messiah Shabsai Tzvi (also spelled Sabbatai Zevi). Indeed, Shabsai Tzvi was initially far more successful than Jesus was. This ultimately led to the end Shabsai Tzvi's sect because the Turkish emperor, seeing Shabsai Tzvi as a threat, forced him to convert to Islam. He was afraid to kill him because that would make him a martyr (the emperor was obviously familiar with the history of Christianity). Jesus, however, was not viewed as a serious threat to anything, just another wacko in a time when wackos were abundant (has there ever been a time when they weren't?). So the Romans just killed him thereby creating a martyr. To say that Jesus & Associates somehow represented normative Judaism is absurd.
When I read the Jewish prophets in the Old Testiment, and then read the New Testiment, I am in awe of the connection between the two. How do you feel?
The New Testament was written by people who were quite familiar with the Old. The "parallels" are inserted deliberately so as to provide their otherwise heretical writings with a veneer of legitimacy. The parallels are superficial and meaningless.
It is clear that you are not familiar with the basics of Torah study. Can you understand Hebrew? Have you ever read the Torah in its original language? Are you even vaguely familiar with the writings of the classical Jewish commentators, such as Rash'i? How can you even begin to claim to have any serious understanding of the Torah without these basic tools which are familiar to every Orthodox Jewish child? Let alone an understanding of the teachings of our Sages from the time of the Talmud. Please. Get real.
On the point concerning Christianity in the Holocast. A true Christian was Cory Ten Boon ..true story ...the movie, video "The Hiding Place". He hid Jewish people and would up himself and his family in a concentration camp. He said he did what he had to do because he was a true Christian.
The fact that some Christians have managed to behave like decent human beings hardly legitimizes the movement. The fact remains that the majority of Christians and of the Christian leadership in all sects either participated in the Holocaust or did nothing to prevent it. They carry a great burden of guilt, it couldn't have happened without them.
When you said, "that from an Orthodox standpoint according to Jewish law, a Jew who becomes a Christian is committing a terrible sin, one which is liable for the death penalty. Obviously it disturbs us. In addition, and this is where the complexity comes in, every Jew is spiritually bound to every other. We are a family and more. We are a spiritual unity".
I am so interested in the paradox of this paragraph, because I got the realization big time...that I am ...yes I am a sinner, and the realization of which is not liable for the death penalty, but eternal life, if I accept Jesus in redeeming my sins thru what He did on the cross.....because after the temple was razed, who but J'shua, Jesus took the place of the animal sacrifice. If not J'shua instead of the animal sacrifice, what then?.
A couple points here:
I was wondering if you could answer a couple of questions for me. 1) If St.Paul was a god-fearing man (as a Jew or Christian) I doubt if he would intentionally lie. If the "blinding light" he saw on the road to Damascus is not to be taken literally, could it be explained symbolically or figuratively? - would "blinded by a light" be sort of a figure of speech for revelation or conversion used in that time in the Middle East that was incorrectly translated by Christians in a literal sense? If this is not the case, how does Judaism explain this "light"? - as lightening or a hallucination or something else??
Certainly, the general assumption made by Jewish tradition is that Paul was not a God-fearing man. He was a heretic, the founder of a new religion, which deified Jesus (but actually had little in common with the teachings of Jesus, which were themselves heretical). He is considered no more credible than the founder of any other cult.
Nevertheless, it is possible that, as false as his teachings were, he may have believed them to be true. Even this does not prove that his tale of hearing the voice of Jesus speaking to him out of a heavenly light (which supposedly left him blind for three days) was actually true. In all likelihood it was simply one of the first of a long chain of "pious frauds" committed by the followers of Christianity (think "shroud of Turin" or "blood libel").
However, let us say that just maybe Paul actually believed that he had experienced some kind of vision on the road to Damascus. Of course, it may have been an hallucination. Considering the fact that his faith could not have been very strong to begin with (or he would never have left Judaism vision or no vision, as we will see in a moment), Paul may have felt some subconscious guilt for the rather extreme methods (as described in the NT) which he was using in persecuting the early Christians and this guilt could have led to a hallucination. This is particularly true since this vision occurred at the end of a fairly long journey (Jerusalem to Damascus) when he was quite possibly overtired. The fact that the purpose of his journey was to introduce his brand of persecution to Damascus might also have intensified his subconscious guilt. Hallucinating bright lights and voices is not the least bit unusual, otherwise normal people have been known to experience far more bizarre hallucinations (just look at the alien abduction phenomenon). If there were any natural events at the time (such as lightning) this would only augment the hallucination.
But, you might ask, how do you distinguish between a hallucination and a true prophecy? The answer is that a true prophet has to go through a number of objective tests before he can be accepted as reliable. He must make predictions, all of which must come true in absolute detail. This is a lengthy subject, for more information you might see my essay titled Prophets and Prophecy. Paul did not go through any of these tests. Furthermore, the single most important criteria for judging the validity of a revelation or prophecy is its congruence with the Torah of Moses. Paul's vision which caused him to abandon that very Torah cannot be considered valid by that standard.
The only possible problem with the theory that Paul experienced a hallucination is that the NT claims that his traveling companions also saw the light and heard the voice which leaves us with either the possibility that the whole story was a fabrication or that some natural phenomenon occurred which they all experienced (or, from a Christian perspective, that the vision was real). However, the NT contradicts itself on this matter. In Acts 9 it writes that the men heard the voice, but in Acts 22 Paul says that the men saw the light but did not hear the voice.
The root of anti-semitism is the fanatical Christian charge that the Jews killed Jesus.
From contemporary Jewish sources from the First to Fifth Century Common Era--what has been the written Jewish reply to the so-called deicide charge? While getting my MA at Brooklyn College, NY-I did extensive research on the role of the Catholic church in anti-semitism--but failed to find historical documents giving the Jewish defensive reply. Why do we Jews have to be the historical fall guy? We are innocent.The question of the death of Jesus is largely meaningless, as we have no way to ever know the true facts. There is even legitimate reason to question whether Jesus ever actually lived. While I am inclined to believe that Jesus did exist, there is little question that the facts of his life have little in common with the stories of the New Testament.
According to the New Testament, Jesus was killed by the Romans at the insistence of the Jews. There are many reasons to question this account, not the least being that if the Jews had asked Pontius Pilate to execute someone it is extremely unlikely that he would have cooperated. On the contrary, even if the fellow had been a murderer, Pilate might have kept him alive out of pure spite. (See discussion of Pontius Pilate.) In all likelihood, Jesus was executed for crimes against the Roman government, and the authors of the New Testament chose to transfer the blame to the Jews.
In any case, even if Jesus had been executed by the Jews, there would be no "deicide" charge because (1) the entire concept of deicide is nonsense, a god who can be killed is no god at all, and (2) Jesus was not a deity.
I am wondering what you think about the Bible Codes. I believe that the Hebrew word for Jesus is Yesua. And if that is so then the Old Testament is embedded with His name throught out, mainly when the Old Testament talks about the Savior.
The current fashion today is to assume that Jesus' name was Yeshua. This may be correct, although Jewish sources generally refer to him as Yeshu (spelled with one less letter). In any event, the so-called Jesus Codes which have been popularized by various missionary organizations and books are meaningless. Legitimate Torah codes are based on statistical probability. The existence of an equidistant letter sequence (ELS) in of itself is insignificant. A certain number of such sequences are to be expected due to the laws of probability. The name 'Yeshua' is only four letters long and uses some of the most commonly used letters in the Hebrew language. As such it is to be expected that sequences containing this word will be found spread throughout the Bible. Yeshua is not the only word like this, many words are similar. Contrary to the popularizers of the Jesus Codes, there is no increased likelihood for Yeshua to appear in "messianic" passages than anywhere else. (Of course, the Christian tendency to interpret every possible passage as messianic will increase the odds dramatically. Unlike Judaism, in which messianism is only one of many important concepts, Christianity is entirely messianic. Many Christians have difficulty dealing with the numerous passages which clearly have nothing to do with the Messiah, and every attempt is made to reinterpret them to do so.) Jesus sequences can be found in practically every section of the Torah, including the section which discusses the laws of a false prophet. A lengthy refutation of the Jesus Codes, and a fuller explanation of the Bible Codes and their mathematical underpinnings is available at several locations on the internet. Try the following:
http://aish.com/seminars/discovery/Codes/jcode1.htm and http://aish.com/seminars/discovery/Codes/jcode2.htm - Discusses the errors in the so-called "Jesus Codes".
http://aish.com/seminars/discovery/Codes/codes.htm - The home for the above page, a good introduction to the Torah Codes.
http://members.xoom.com/bcodes/ - More basic info, including an abridgement of the original article published in Statistical Science (which is what really got the ball rolling on the codes issue).
http://www.torahcodes.co.il/ - A more academically oriented site. Worth a visit.
There is, of course, some opposition to the Torah Codes claim. While most of this opposition comes from confirmed secularists who's rejection is largely a matter of principle (most would never accept the codes even if the proof were irrefutable), there are a number of Bible believing Jews and non-Jews who have serious problems with it. See, for example, http://wopr.com/biblecodes/ , a site which points out possible problems with the Codes. The site is written by an Orthodox Jew who, of course, accepts the Divine origin of the Torah.
I would point out that, while my knowledge of mathematics is too weak to really comment on this issue, the rhetoric used by many of the opponents of the Torah Codes casts their claims in a rather poor light. One such opponent is Brendan McKay. See, for example, his article at http://www3.zdnet.com/yil/content/mag/9708/biblecode.html, which begins by mentioning the Statistical Science article, but then attempts to discredit the article by attacking the book The Bible Code by Michael Drosnin, despite the fact that the book was rejected by all the legitimate Torah Code researchers. He then proceeds with a lot of silliness about Bill Gates in the Christian book of Revelations, none of which has any legitimate bearing on the real issues. It is simply an attempt to make the Bible Codes look silly in front of a largely ignorant audience. There is really very little question that most of the opposition to the codes is the result of prejudice, not reason. Nevertheless, there are some serious issues which have to be dealt with, so I am withholding personal judgment until more evidence comes in. In any event, there is certainly no doctrinal obligation in Judaism or, if I understand correctly, in Christianity, to believe that the Torah Codes exist. While God may have chosen to insert such codes, for whatever reason, our belief in the truth of the Torah is entirely independent of them.
If my beliefs are not correct then I will burn in hell. My faith is real strong, sometimes, I falter every now and then and sin which I know is an abomination in the eyes of God. I get on my knees and pray for forgiveness for my short commings, being human. But if you are wrong, well I don't know.
While Christianity apparently does maintain that anyone who does not accept its beliefs will burn in Hell, Judaism does not accept such a bald statement. Judaism does require certain basic beliefs from non-Jews but it does not demand absolute conformity with Jewish teachings on the part of non-Jews. There are many Jewish authorities who consider Christianity an acceptable religion for non-Jews in that it conforms with the basic requirements of the seven laws of Noah. (Islam is better.) Christianity, however, seems anxious to condemn anyone who differs in any matter of belief to hell. Historically this was probably the only way for the church to keep Christians toeing the line. Judaism, being the true product of the Divine Will and therefore not subject to such insecurity, has no such urge.
As for your thinly veiled threat that my beliefs will land me in Hell, let me put it this way. I would feel more comfortable in a hell populated by all the great and righteous Sages of Jewish history and the millions of holy martyrs who went to their death for their rejection of Christianity, than I would in a heaven filled with Christians, the very people who murdered millions of innocent Jews for nothing more than their devotion to the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and David.
Christianity would condemn to Hell people who worship God and obey His commandments, who believe in the Divine origin of the Bible and the truth of its prophets, and who spend their lives trying grow in holiness and come closer to God. Christianity would condemn such people to Hell simply because they won't accept Christianity's Johnny-come-lately theological silliness and its bizarre mish-mash of Jewish and pagan beliefs. Christianity was not founded by God, but by men, men who had the incredible gall to declare that their human leader was God Himself. Christianity has changed its basic beliefs dozens of times since its founding, and then proceeded to murder and oppress those who didn't conform with the changes. Christianity has condoned, and frequently encouraged, the murder of millions of innocent men, women, and children (mostly women) as "witches". Christianity accepted torture as a legitimate form of interrogation. Etc. etc. etc.
A heaven run by such a god would be worse than hell.
I have a question of history I hope you can help me with. I have recently been researching the historical personage of Yeshua, and as far as extra biblical confirmation I have run
across little, save for Josephus. One thing that he apparently wrote was:
About this time there lived Yeshua, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvellous things about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
I appreciate anything you can tell me about Josephus and his apparent confirmation of Jesus as the Messiah.
But something that bothered me was that an early Christian writer named Origen claimed that Josephus did NOT think that Yeshua was the messiah. I was wondering if you knew anything about Josephus, and if this passage may have been tampered with at a latter time.
To my knowledge, the passage you refer to is the only one in which Josephus refers to Jesus at all. In some other passages we can find references to one or two other New Testament figures. However, in my opinion these references, particularly the Jesus reference, were later insertions by Christian "editors". If you will look at the context of the Jesus reference in Ant. XVIII:3, it is, in my opinion, obvious that the paragraph about Jesus is an interruption of the legitimate text.
However, even if one wishes to reject the claim that the references are complete insertions, there is little question that they were significantly altered. If the Jesus reference is legitimate, then we would be faced with the bizarre prospect of Josephus describing the coming of the Messiah in one paragraph and never mentioning it again. According to the quote, Josephus describes Jesus as "the Messiah" and the fulfillment of Divine prophecies; such statements would usually indicate that the speaker was a Christian, yet it is well established that Josephus was not a Christian.
See Testimonium Flavianum for an interesting discussion of the theory that the basic reference is legitimate but was rewritten by Christian "editors".
I am a Jew and I was raised a Jew my whole life. I have seen a very interesting difference in the worship of HaShem in the Synagogues of Reform and Conservative Judaism as opposed to a Messianic Synagogue. (Sorry I have not attended a Orthodox service before.) The main difference I have noticed is that when I goto a Messianic Service there is a lot of joy whether it be in the singing of Praise to HaShem or even in the disscussion on Torah. On the other hand in the many non-Yeshua based Synagogues I have attended you will not find this joy on that level. It really has made me sad to see this and you wonder why attendances and assimilations are happening.
My main concern would be that if anything you would see this as proof of the validity of what the Messianic Jews believe. (Go to a service one day it might be an eye opener.) If that doesn't suit you promise me this that you will do everything in your power to turn your Jewish people within your Synagogue back to the joy of Praise and worship that was found in the time of King David. I am not asking you to turn to Messianic Judaism (that is just my hope and prayer) but back to HaShem in a true and joyful way.
I guess my question is why do you think these differences are so often evident between Judaism and Messianic Judaism?
Before I deal with your actual question, why is there so much more "joy" at Messianic services over those of "Judaism", I will have to clarify a few points.
In any case, as Reform and Conservative Judaism are not Judaism at all, they can tell us nothing about the distinctions between actual Judaism and Christianity.
Furthermore, joy is not necessarily expressed through superficial expression. Such "joy" can be found in the places where people are actually the least happy. True joy is primarily an inner emotion, which should be externally expressed in service of God when appropriate. Not all occasions are fitting for such expression. For example, burying the dead is a part of God's service, yet to bury the dead with singing and dancing would be inappropriate. Also, when praying to God for forgiveness for one's sins, the proper attitude is one of sincere regret and remorse, not laughter and joyfulness. This is why, for example, Rosh HaShana and Yom Kippur services are generally more somber than those of an ordinary Sabbath or holiday.
And now to your question, why are "Messianic" services so joyful relative to Reform and Conservative services?
To answer this let us ask another question. Why are Messianic Jewish services so much more joyful than the services in most ordinary Christian churches? I mean, it's pretty well known that the services in most churches are pretty boring, yet the churches of Messianic Jews are so "joyful". Why?
The answer to both questions is essentially the same. Messianic Jewish churches are intended for "outreach" -- i.e. missionizing. The services in most churches would rarely, if ever, draw a Jew into Christianity. This is well known by Christian missionaries. To solve this problem, Christian missionaries created the Messianic Jewish movement, which is intended to sell Christianity to Jews. One of the tactics used is making the services "joyful". That is the reason why Messianic services have so much more "joy" than the services by Reform or Conservative Judaism.
It is saddening that a Jew would abandon the faith of his ancestors for a religion which his ancestors would have gladly died to avoid joining. It is not your fault, of course. You never experienced true Judaism, so it is not surprising that you joined another group that seems to offer the spirituality that you were lacking. I strongly recommend you try the real thing.
Thank you for responding to my question and I am sorry if my question gave a negative observation on Judaism as opposed to Messianic Judaism I didn't mean for it to come out like that. I was just simply responding to my outlook on the congregations I have visited in the past.
You said that I have abandoned my faith as a Jew, and you don't even know me. The fact is ever since I have become a believer in the Mashiach of Israel I have desired to learn more and more about Judaism because of the fact that I wanted to know more about the G-d I serve. I will tell you the truth I despise Christianity as a whole because of the blatant anti-semitism it has brought opon our people (Hashem's people). The changing of the Shabbat to Sunday and Passover (Pesach) to Easter is outright blasphemy and is a slap in the face to the Holy One of Israel. My Grandmother escaped out of Russia during the Holocaust and came to America, most of my family on my mothers side were executed by so called "Christians" Believe me I do not want anything to do with that religion. The gentiles corrupted what was originally more Jewish then what you and I will ever experience in our life time and that is a Judaism with a belief in a Jewish Mashiach who brings Salvation to those who accept his Sacrifice as valid (sorry got carried away) Actually Gentiles in the time of Yeshua had to convert to Judaism in order to follow the Mashiach and not the other way around, it talks about that right in the Book of Acts and Romans in the New Testament but the "Christians" don't ever talk about that though, I wonder why.
In reality every Shabbat I put on my Kippa, my Mother lights the Shabbat candles she say's the pray and I read V'shamru in Hebrew and English and I then we read some other liturgy out of our siddur, then I say the prayer over the bread and the wine (Kiddush and Hamotsee), etc... In our services on Shabbat morning we read from a siddur and we do a lot of liturgy, Shema, V'ahavata, Mi Chamocha, Barechu, Sim Shalom, and many more. We take the Torah out and we walk it around the congregation and then it is placed on the beama and the Rabbi say's the blessing's over the Torah then he reads the Torah reading in Hebrew then in English and at the end of the servicethe Rabbi says the Aronic Blessing, ect....
How much more Jewish can you get!! I did not "abandon the faith of my ancestors for a religion which his ancestors would have gladly died to avoid joining" in fact I have found my faith in Judaism to be 200% stronger and more real than it ever was before I found Mashiach. How can you point the finger and say "you are not a Jew anymore and have abandoned your faith" when you don't even know me. I am a living descendant from my Father Abraham that is what qualifies me and anybody else who is a Jew to be Jewish and this is by the standards of the written Torah.
Listen, I know there are many so called Messianic Jewish movements out there who claim to be "Jewish" or "Pro-Israel" or "Zionistic" so to say but in reality are for the most part Christian, but I will tell you I have and will not have absolutely any part of these. If I leave you with anything in this E-mail message it is this: The Mashiach I believe in is, was, and always will be Jewish.
Luke 4:16 "And he(Yeshua) came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his CUSTOM was, he went into the synagogue on the SABBATH day, and stood up for to read."
Revelations 22:16 "I Yeshua have sent my angel to testify unto you these things in the congregations. I am the root and the OFFSPRING of David,...."
Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the good news of Mashiach: for it is the power of G-d unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the JEW first, and also to the Greek."
There are some very interesting scriptures throughout the whole New Testament that testify to the Jewishness of this Mashiach because the fact is it was written by Jews for Jews and every word verifies the Torah and the whole Tanahk, it is more like a commentary than anything.
From the letters you have written it is clear to me that you have become a "Messianic" Jew out of a sincere desire to come closer to God. As such you are to be respected. Nevertheless, the means which you have taken are not the ones which will accomplish your goal. If we are to come close to God, then we must take God's word seriously as to how that closeness is to be achieved. As you point out, many of the changes instituted by Christianity are blasphemous and "a slap in the face of God". Yet, surely you do not think that there are no Christians who are entirely sincere in their Sunday services and their Easter services? Nevertheless, despite their sincerity, you recognize that their service is sorely lacking because it is not in conformance with God's Will. That is the position of Judaism towards "Messianic" Judaism. As sincere as many "Messianic" Jews may be, the beliefs and practices followed by "Messianic" Jews are not in conformance with the Will of God.
The reasons why this is so are numerous. But before we enter into the technical discussion of the theological flaws of Messianic Judaism I think we should first cover some other issues.
I read with great interest your description of how you keep Shabbos. You put on your Kippa (skullcap), your mother lights the Shabbat candles with the blessing, you read V'shamru and some other liturgy and you say Kiddush (the ritual welcoming of the Sabbath over wine) and Hamotsee (the blessing on bread). In the morning you attend a communal prayer service, you recite various prayers and read from the Torah. I have a question for you. How many of these mitzvos are actually in the Torah? Practically none. Covering the head certainly isn't, nor is lighting Shabbos candles, reciting any of the prayers, making the blessings or the Kiddush over wine. The only Biblical commandments in the bunch are the Kiddush itself (but the wine is not a Biblical requirement) and the recitation of the Shema. Do you know where all of these other practices originated? They are all Rabbinical decrees, or, in the case of Kipah, a Rabbinic practice which was adopted by all religious Jews. And do you know which Rabbis established these beautiful, meaningful, and deeply spiritual practices? The same rabbis whom Jesus repeatedly attacked as "hypocrites". Yet even while attacking them Jesus had to concede that "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: so practice and observe whatever they tell you..." (Matthew 23:2-3). Even Jesus had no choice but to admit that the Pharisees were the only reliable authority on the intent of the Scriptures. Even your quote from Luke about Jesus attending the synagogue service and reading from the Torah refers to Rabbinical decrees, not Biblical. You are certainly correct when you describe these practices and exclaim, "How much more Jewish can you get!!" for truly the commandments of the Rabbis are one of the most important defining characteristic of Judaism. And these very same rabbis rejected Jesus as a charlatan!
However, as important as the teachings of the Rabbis are, they only serve to safeguard the commandments of the Torah itself. It is these Biblical commandments which make up the bulk of the really "big" obligations of Judaism. Commandments such as the prohibition against work on the Sabbath (such as lighting a fire or carrying in a public domain), the commandments to only eat kosher animals which were slaughtered in a kosher way, the commandment to don tefilin every day, and all the other commandments listed in the Torah. The Rabbinical decrees are only meaningful as safeguards for the Torah. If a Jew abandons the commandments of the Torah itself, but keeps the Rabbinical decrees, it demonstrates that there is something greatly lacking in his understanding of his obligations as a Jew. If so, why is it that we find that many "Messianic" Jews are very enthusiastic about their many Jewish practices, like communal prayer, kipah, and other Rabbinic ordinances, but fail to properly observe the commandments of God Himself? This is particularly strange considering that "Messianic" Jews generally deny the validity of the Oral Torah, which is conveyed to us by the Rabbis, and claim that they only accept the authority of the Written Torah. Yet they observe more Rabbinic commandments than Biblical!
The reason for this paradox is simple. The average "Messianic" Jew, like yourself, has had little, if any, exposure to actual Judaism. Many, like yourself, have never even attended an Orthodox prayer service, let alone actually studied Judaism under the tutelage of a truly knowledgeable Orthodox rabbi. As such, they generally have little, if any, idea which practices are actually Biblical and which are Rabbinical. However, they generally are familiar, in an extremely inaccurate manner, with common Jewish practices. They may have seen a performance of Fiddler on the Roof, or read a book by Isaac Bashevis Singer. Some might have even read a book or two by a Reform or Conservative "rabbi". In some cases, there may be some vague memories of grandparents performing various rituals and practices. In general these kinds of extremely inaccurate sources are the only sources of knowledge these Jews have about traditional Judaism. So when these Jews are driven by their soul to search for spirituality, they turn to these practices and adopt them, in a distorted form, as an external expression of their newfound spirituality. This is exacerbated by "Messianic rabbis" who use these kinds of practices as camouflage for the fundamentally anti-Jewish nature of their teachings. By wearing a kipah and tallis, the "Messianic Rabbi" fools these innocent Jews into thinking that the beliefs of Christianity are an acceptable, or even superior, form of Judaism.
This is why I said that it is sad that you have abandoned Judaism. Perhaps abandoned is an inaccurate term, for you cannot abandon something you never had. It breaks my heart when I hear of Jews like yourself, who have their hearts in the right place, who are truly striving to come close to God and serve Him wholeheartedly, and find that they have turned down a blind alley. Could anything be sadder?
Please note, I have never said that you are not Jewish. If your mother is Jewish then so are you, even if you become the pope.
You are quite correct that Christianity began as a Jewish movement. Jesus was certainly a Jew, that is indisputable. So were all of his disciples. However, Christianity was not, and never became, a mainstream movement within Judaism. The reason for this is simple. The teachings of Jesus and his disciples were clearly heretical.
Haven't you ever wondered why the overwhelming majority of Jews who lived in the times of Jesus did not consider Jesus legitimate? Despite the exaggerations of the New Testament, it is fairly obvious from many sources that Christianity never became a major force in the Jewish culture. Of course, like many small contemporary cults, it attracted many of the outcasts of Jewish society and it aroused some angry opposition. But, on the whole, most Jews viewed Jesus as an insignificant fake.
The reason why the Jewish community never accepted Jesus is because his teachings were a clear break from the most fundamental beliefs of Judaism. To understand how this is so, it is first necessary to study these beliefs. While there is no way for me to sum up the basic beliefs of Judaism in an e-mail, I will try to briefly describe the most important concepts necessary for this discussion. (I suggest you also read the translation of the 13 Foundations of Judaism in the Jewish Belief section of my website.) The basic beliefs of Judaism relevant to this discussion are:
All these ideas are basic to Judaism. All are expressed in Scripture. I could provide sources and proofs for all of these statements, but that would double or triple the length of this e-mail, which is already quite long. In any event, all of these ideas have been well known amongst the Jews since the time of Sinai.
I believe it is obvious that the teachings of Christianity (or "Messianic Judaism" if you wish) contradict these teachings. To claim that Jesus is part of the Divinity verges on idolatry. It is certainly a violation of the principle that God is infinite and completely divorced from physicality. To claim that Jesus is a part of God is to deny God's Unity. (All the Christological gibberish about the Trinity being a Unity and Multiplicity is meaningless. Most Christian theologians have already given up trying to explain it, they just describe it as "a deep mystery".) To claim that the Messiah is God is totally without legitimate basis. Asides from the fact that it contradicts all the previous principles, it has no support in Scripture. To claim that God had a literal son is absurd, without any basis in Scripture, and a denial of the nonphysical nature of God. The denial of the binding nature of the commandments is a contradiction to the eternal nature of the Torah. The list goes on and on. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Jews have given their lives to deny these heresies.
The important point here is that the Jews received the Torah, both Written and Oral, from God. The beliefs and practices required by God were well known to them. Jesus then declared that he had a new revelation that contradicted what God had told the Jews. The Jews had to decide who to believe, God or Jesus. There was really no contest. The teachings of Christianity are nothing more than man-made alterations to the perfect word of God. Spreading paint over a dirty wall may be an improvement, but spreading paint over a beautiful painting is a desecration.
I will close with a few comments about early Christianity and the New Testament.
As we have already stated, when Christianity began it was an exclusively Jewish movement. The early Christians, while heretics, still considered themselves Jews and distinct from the non-Jews. As such, in order for a non-Jew to become a Christian he also had to become a Jew. This caused problems as Christianity began to attract non-Jews. The question of conversion, and particularly circumcision, caused a great deal of controversy within the movement. However, the winner of the conflict was the anti-circumcision party, led by Paul. Their motivation for this was primarily to create a source of numerous new converts. Together with the abandonment of circumcision went the abandonment of the binding nature of Torah law, which Paul described as "the curse of the Law". This became the official policy of Christianity and was incorporated in the New Testament. So there is no hypocrisy in the fact that Christians generally don't focus on the original policy to require circumcision for conversion to Christianity, as this policy was officially rejected by the New Testament.
The New Testament is indeed interesting to read because of the information it provides about Jewish life during that period. Despite the numerous inaccuracies and distortions, it does have historical value. However, it is absolutely useless as a Biblical commentary. The overwhelming majority of "Old Testament" quotes in the New Testament are distorted, taken out of context, and even mistranslated. None of the Scriptural "proofs" provided in the NT are valid, most fall apart after minimal analysis.
I truly hope and pray that you will make an effort to study true Judaism. I assure you that you will find far more satisfaction from the true word of God than from any man-made substitute.
Shalom again, in your last E-mail you found some interesting ways to try to point out that I was not "truly" following Judaism and yet again you misunderstood my point in the E-mail I sent you and that is partially my fault because I had limited time to write out what I was trying to say. In other words I gave just a little about what I believe, but apparently you think now that I hold the traditional things above the laws of Torah which is most certainly not true. I believe the writings of the Torah and the Prophets to be of utmost importance over any traditional facet. The reason I have taken the liberty and the care to follow these traditional things of Judaism is simply the fact that the are a part of my heritage as a Jew. You probably I would hope do these same traditions. Just because it is not in the Torah specifically, does not make it wrong to follow these things, unless they are directly against Torah itself. I try as much as any human can to follow the commandments outlined in the Torah (yes, they are eternal and they were never changed by Yeshua, Shaul [Paul], or anybody) The feast's of God, outlined in Leviticus 23, are a good example of commandments that were most certainly not changed (except in the minds of the Christians) The commandment to put the words of God on the door post of your house is another which has NOT been "abolished" so to say. The fact is all the commandments in which God has given us in the Torah are NOT done away with.
There are many Orthodox Jews that have been raised Orthodox since birth but are believers in Yeshua and somehave even visited my congregation. What if I believed and had the knowledge of exactly everything an Orthodox Jew believes, but I follow Yeshua HaMashiach. Would you still think that I don't know what Judaism is? or is it that fact that I believe in the Mashiach of Israel that would still make you say that I don't know what Judaism is. If that is the case then I wonder if your rationalization can even be valid.
There is a small group of Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem who are believers in the Mashiach Yeshua and they still are Rabbi's in Orthodox Synagogues, they say that the reason they do not say anything to anybody is the fact that the time is not ready yet untill they can proclaim Him to the other Jews in Israel (Now that is interesting). My focus here is that you can be a believer in what you say is Judaism and be a believer in Mashiach. I know what you are going to say, "A real Orthodox would never believe that and those Orthodox Jews are abandoning there faith" It is quite boastful to say that you are following the "true" Judaism when the fact is Orthodoxy has many flaws in its self just like Messianic Judaism and we both agree that Christianity has flaws.
The truth is I am trying to live as Jew in a Gentile world and we both know that can be difficult, I really take the things that you have told me seriously and I strive to learn more about being a Jew. To tell you the truth HaShem has confimed to me over and over that the belief in Salvation through Yeshua is valid and the Synagogue where I attend speaks truth.
[The following story has been slightly edited for length - Lazer]
One confirmation happened after the 3rd week of attending my messianic congregation. I began to question, as you have done, the validity of Messianic Judaism and the belief in a Messiah who had been Sacrificed for the Jewish people so that their sin's could be atoned for. So I did what anybody who really doesn't know if something is right should do and that is, I asked God. I asked Him if this Synagogue was speaking truth and if Yeshua is what I should be following. Well that Shabbat he gave me a very interesting anwser, I was looking through my closet that Shabbat morning to find something to wear for the Morning services when I suprisingly found a shirt that I had never seen before in my life right in my closet. I even asked my Mother if she had seen the shirt before and she said she had no idea where it came from. It was a T-Shirt and on the shirt it said "SH'MA" in big letters and above it had SH'MA in Hebrew, on both sides of the Hebrew letters it had 2 hands which were shackeled by chains but the chains had been broken like they were set free, under the letters SH'MA was the words of the affirmation "Hear O' Israel the Lord our God, the Lord is One, Blessed is His Glorious Kingdom forever and ever" I ended up wearing the Shirt to the services that morning and after the services a man that had been going to the Synagogue for a long time came up to me and asked me were I got the shirt. I told him that I didn't know I had just found it that day in my closet. He told me that he was the artist who created the shirt. I replied back to him how did it end up in my closet? He said God must be telling you something. I found out about a year after I found the shirt that "SH'MA" is the root of where my name "Sam" comes from, Samuel or Shemuel is "To hear from God" translated from the orginal Hebrew, like Samuel in the book of 1st Samuel is called by God 3 times and Samuel "hears" him. God has very interesting ways of anwsering a question and He anwsers you in a way that you will know and will remember, He gave me a shirt as a confirmation about the Synagogue and He has done many more things after that.
[End of editing - Lazer]
Now I know you gave me alot to respond to you in the last E-Mail but it won't really matter what I respond to you because you will not see the truth untill HaShem himself shows you, no matter if I give you every proof in the Tanach and the Brit Hadasha (New Testatment) that Yeshua is the promised Mashiach of Israel. What I challenge to you is to ask the one who who will know your anwser, and that is Elohim. Just ask Him if the Mashiach did come and die for your sins 2000 years ago and if you accept this Messiah your sins will be atoned for. Ask if Messianic Judaism is a valid form of Judaism as a faith. Ask Him if you should be swaying the chosen people of God away from believing and accepting their own Messiah. If you just ask the God of Israel He will tell you the truth about these matter then we can get past all this confusion. He has shown me a lot in the past 5 years and I know I will see more (you will too).
Isaiah 7:11 "Ask the LORD your God for a sign, whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights."
I am somewhat uncertain as to whether I should make the investment of time and energy to respond to your e-mail. In your last message you did not respond to even one of the points I raised. I am writing now in the hopes that you will seriously read what I write and respond to the point. Otherwise there is no reason for this discussion to continue.
You are certainly correct that the laws of the Torah have not been annulled. All of them are binding. In addition, the laws established by the rabbis are also binding on every Jew, as are the many customs which have been adopted by the Jewish community. What I wanted to point out, however, was not that you seem to consider the traditional practices to be more important than the actual Biblical mitzvos. I had three basic points I was trying to make:
Those were the primary points I wished to address in my last letter to you. I do hope that you will consider them seriously and respond to them directly in your next letter. Otherwise this discussion will prove not to be a discussion at all, but simply two people talking at each other without listening to what the other is actually saying. I have no desire to engage in such a futile undertaking, nor do I have the time.
As for the new issues you raised in your last letter.
I have no real interest in debating with you on whether or not the New Testament actually declared the mitzvos to be effectively null and void. While it certainly seems to be explicit in the NT that the mitzvos are not considered binding, it is quite aside from the point. The mere belief in Jesus as deity is, in itself, a major violation of innumerable commandments in the Torah. Even if you choose to believe that Jesus is only the messiah, but is not God or the "son of God", there are still numerous problems. There is no way to follow any existing "Messianic" belief system and claim, truthfully, that one is still following the commandments of the Torah.
You write that there are many Orthodox Jews who believe in Jesus. You say that there is even a group of Orthodox rabbis in Israel which believes this. My friend, you have been deceived! There are no such Orthodox Jews, except maybe one or two oddballs, and certainly no such group of Orthodox rabbis. However, there may be some individuals who were raised in nominally Orthodox homes, who have since drifted away from Judaism entirely and joined a Messianic group. However such homes are not representative of Orthodoxy, and these individuals are certainly not reliable sources of information about Orthodoxy. In addition, there is an unfortunate tendency for people of decidedly non-Orthodox beliefs and practices to claim to be Orthodox. This problem is most common with Christian missionaries, but it exists in other circles as well. The reason why these people do this is because, despite the best efforts of the Reform and Conservative movements, Orthodox Jews are, justifiably, considered to represent the most authentic form of Judaism. If an Orthodox Jew or, even more so, an Orthodox rabbi says that a certain belief or practice is acceptable within Judaism, this carries far more weight than if the statement were made by a Jew from any other affiliation (or non-affiliation, as the case might be). So in such situations it is convenient to be viewed as an Orthodox Jew. It is a classic case of the wolf in sheep's clothing.
You ask, "What if I believed and had the knowledge of exactly everything an Orthodox Jew believes, but I follow Yeshua HaMashiach. Would you still think that I don't know what Judaism is?" First of all, you are asking a non sequitur, it is impossible to believe what an Orthodox Jew believes and follow Jesus at the same time, the two belief systems are fundamentally contradictory. It is certainly not "boastful", as you term it, to say that one cannot simultaneously believe in Orthodox Judaism and also believe in Jesus, any more than it is boastful to claim that you cannot believe that the earth is round at the same time that you believe that it is flat.
But, if we drop the belief part, your question does make some sense. Certainly it is possible to know everything an Orthodox Jew believes and still follow Jesus. However, in such a case that would make you a knowledgeable sinner, which is worse than one who sins out of ignorance.
I am glad that you can acknowledge that "Messianic Judaism" has flaws. That is, I hope, the first step in your return to your God. However, I must emphatically state that Judaism, true Judaism, which is followed by Orthodox Jews, is the perfect product of the perfect Creator, God Himself. It has no flaws. Certainly there are many many flawed Orthodox Jews, such as myself, but Judaism itself is perfect.
I am not sure what you wish to point out when you say that you are a Jew living in a Gentile world. Welcome to the club! Every Jew since Abraham has been in the same situation. It certainly does not justify abandoning your faith!
You write that "HaShem has confimed to me over and over that the belief in Salvation through Yeshua is valid and the Synagogue where I attend speaks truth." As an example, you told me about your "miraculous t-shirt". Now, for the purpose of this discussion we will assume that every detail of your story is accurate and that there are no other explanations for the "miraculous t-shirt" except that it was a supernatural event and, furthermore, that the only possible interpretation of this sign is to worship Jesus. The question then is very simple, if one receives a "sign" which tells us to abandon our faith, are we to follow this sign? For example, let us ask what we would do if we experienced a miraculous sign that we should worship a Hindu god, would we then be justified in abandoning our faiths because of such a sign? Let's say we received dozens of these signs, all pointing to Krishna or some similar pagan deity, would we be permitted to follow these signs? I'm sure we both agree that we would not. However, I ask you, why not?
The answer is that we don't believe in God and His Torah because of signs or miracles. Every religion has signs and miracles (most of which are a good deal more impressive than t-shirts). Why do we believe in HaShem more than these other religions? How do we know that the Torah is really God's word, and that the scriptures of other religions are worthless? We know this because when God took us out of Egypt, he brought us, the Jewish people, to Mount Sinai and spoke to every single Jewish man, woman, and child. The entire nation met God in a single mass revelation which has no parallel in human history. No other religion has ever claimed such a revelation because such a claim would be obviously false. Only the Jews make such a claim, because only the Jews had such an experience. That is how we know that HaShem is our God, and that is how we know that the Torah is the true word of God.
So what does God tell us to do when we receive a miraculous sign to abandon the Torah?
"If there arises among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or a miracle. And the sign or the miracle comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, Let us go after other gods, which you have not known, and let us serve them; You shall not listen to the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God tests you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and you shall serve him, and hold fast to him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he has spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to thrust you out of the way which the Lord your God commanded you to walk in. So shall you purge the evil away from the midst of you." Deuteronomy 13.
Signs are irrelevant on matters of faith. We must instead turn to the Torah and see what the God wants from us. And if we study the Torah honestly we will learn that the Torah does not want us worshiping another human being, including Jesus.
(By the way, your name "Shemuel" has no connection to the word Sh'ma. The word Sh'ma has the letter ayin in it, but Shemuel does not not. The source for the name Shemuel is stated in 1 Samuel 1:20.)
You are quite correct that all your "proofs" from the Tanach would not convince me. However, this is not because I am particularly stubborn or stiff-necked; it is not because I have closed my eyes to the truth; it is because, quite simply, the "proofs" do not prove. Every single one of the so-called proofs for the significance of Jesus is meaningless. We could go through and discuss each one, however you will probably find it simpler to simply study the information that is already available on this topic.
Finally, there is no need for me to "ask God" whether or not "Messianic Judaism" is a valid form of Judaism. God has already provided the answer to this question, and every other question, in His holy Torah. "Know therefore this day, and consider it in your heart, that the Lord is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath; there is no other. You shall keep therefore His statutes, and His commandments, which I command you this day, that it may go well with you, and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days upon the land, which the Lord your God gives you, forever." (Deuteronomy 4:39-40)
The Torah is very clear that belief systems like "Messianic Judaism" are not acceptable.
Isaiah 7:11 was a special offer from God to Ahaz, and was not on a matter of faith. It has no bearing on the question of asking for a sign regarding basic issues of belief. Such signs are meaningless and useless. If the "sign" conforms to the Torah then it is unnecessary, and if it does not then we must reject it.
I hope this is helpful. I am interested in continuing this correspondence. However, it is important that we respond to the issues instead of simply changing the subject. I hope to hear from you soon.
© Eliezer C. Abrahamson