Guitar Player

By Jim Schwartz

Feb '82 Guitar Player Magazine

(reprinted with permission)

JIM SCHWARTZ: Think back to 1971, just

before you were about to record your first album.

Did you feel you were a good enough guitarist to

put it down on vinyl?

GARY RICHRATH: Back then, quite honestly, I

didn't even know you got paid to play the guitar.

I didn't know what a royalty check was. While

today I can hold my own with just about anybody

who wants to play with me, in '71 I wasn't a very

good player. We were just a bar band with a huge

local following, and one day some producer came

out, signed us to a label, and said, "Go make an

album."

What type of recording equipment did you use?

It was an 8 track recorder, and we basically did the

same things we were doing in the bars. I played the

leads I did live; I didn't go back and overdub them.

I didn't even know what the hell an overdub was

back then.

From the very first, speed and upper-register climbs filled your songs. Were you consciously doing those
things to develop a style?

If I do have any sort of style, it's because of playing in bars. When we did the clubs, I could never hear
myself; so I played high. That's the only way I could hear myself back then. And you know, I've kind of
stuck to that because it tends to give texture to everything. Instead of me being down with all the other
guitarists, I'm up high on the neck. It wasn't until the fourth or fifth album that I got into overdubs.

Were you using any specific exercises to build up your playing speed?

Again, I think that just came out of necessity. Back in the bars, it's not like they have a spotlight on you, so I
played high and fast because I wanted people to notice me. I'd go out to the very edge of the stage -- my feet
would be touching someone's face in the crowd. Besides, it wasn't like we were a blues band. The rest of the
guys played fast, too. It was keep up, or get out! So, I kept up.

One year later, you cut your second record, REO/TWO. Did you ever think REO would get to that point?

No. See, that again was still the time when I was just... I still didn't know you got paid for anything, and I still
hadn't seen a royalty check. I remember the big revelation we had about the second album-- we approved the
cover. With the first, we didn't know what the cover looked like until we bought the record in the store.

The production on REO/TWO seemed a bit better than the first album. Why was that?

We worked on the songs a little more, thinking we should polish things up a bit. And that was also the first
time we had a hand at mixing. There I was, sitting in front of five million knobs, saying, "Hmmmmm." We
struggled our way through it, and the mix suffered, because we didn't know what in the hell we were doing.
Actually, the first few albums were vague as far as sitting down and trying to structure the songs. We still
weren't smart enough.

The wah-wah pedal....

Came into existence on the second album. You see, I don't sing, so....

You do sing.

Well, Kevin Cronin, our lead singer, put an end to that [laughs]. Actually, it was mutual. We didn't want to
confuse the audience; we wanted to have one singer, and not go back and forth. Also, I really don't sing that
well; so, the way I sing is with the guitar. That's also why I like to do harmonics a lot -- you know, chirps and
stuff. That's my way of being vocal. Along that same line, I learned to play the wah-wah pedal from Jeff
Beck, because I idolize him. I hate guys that just stand there and go "wah, wah, wah." To me, the effects
adds expression, a vocal quality. Listen to Jeff Beck on Truth. That's what I like to do. I'm really into tone on
the guitar, and Jeff Beck was my epitome of tone.

With the release of your third album, Ridin' the Storm Out, and Kevin's departure from the band, you must
have felt a real burden to produce songs. How did you pick up the creative slack when Kevin left?

Not to get into personalities, but the reason Kevin left is because he and I were having problems deciding
which way the band should go. He's acoustic-oriented, while I'm lead and electric-oriented. At that point in
time, our egos were getting in the way. I wanted to go in one direction, and he wanted to go in another. So,
when he did leave I was ready; I said, "What the hell, I'll write all the songs."

You wrote eight out of ten.

Something like that. We also had a producer that the time who loved me and hated Kevin. That led to
problems and also the breakup. If the producer only likes one person in the band, he tends to think, "Well,
this song is better than that one" whether it is or not. Ultimately, it made my songwriting suffer, because I
had a few songs on the third album that I normally wouldn't have put on ANY album. It was just because
Kevin wasn't there, and our producer was saying, "You do this. You do everything. You're the Wonder
Boy." Everyone kept feeding my ego, and I said, "Fine." But it wasn't the right thing to do.

Q. How did all of this affect your playing?

I didn't like the way my guitar sounded on the albums, and I didn't like the way I was playing. The producer
was dictating to me how I should play -- he was trying to produce my guitar through him. I guess he must
have been a frustrated musician, since he was trying to get me to play the way he would, or something. He
kept telling me, "Don't play so fast. Don't play so high."

He was trying to influence technique as well as tone?

Exactly. And whatever trademark I had going for me, he just didn't like. Unfortunately, I listened to him for
two albums [laughs], and I suffered because of it. But live was a different story. I'd play the stuff he told me
to on the record, but when we'd tour, I kept hearing from the kids that they like our show, but not the albums.
I was going crazy. When you're in the middle of a studio and you do something-- even if it's heavily
influenced by the producer and you're a young guitar player-- you like it, you know, until about two weeks
after you're done with it. Then you think, "God, that's a piece of shit!" So, I liked it when I recorded it, but
when the kids would come up and tell me it didn't sound like us, I felt really defeated. It was then that I got
the first inkling that maybe the band should take over everything, and screw these producers.

Did you feel anything positive came out of that experience?

Not for a long time. I got so fed up during that period, and with people telling me how to play and what to
play, and "slow down" and "calm down" and other things, when all I wanted to do was PLAY. The only
good thing that came out of that was the producers kept telling me to play more melodically, which was
good. On our first and second albums, I was just fast. By Ridin' the Storm Out, I was doing more
concentrating on melodies.

You're pretty much a Gibson Les Paul guy, right?

Yeah. You know, I got so upset when Jeff Beck

switched to Stratocasters. That killed me. I mean,

he sounded so great. When I was 15 or 16, I used

to go into pawn shops and buy Sunbursts for $50,

and now they're costing thousands. I cut my teeth

on Les Pauls, and I'll never change.

Which specific guitar did you use on the first

five REO albums?

The same one I played tonight, a '60. Joe Walsh

got me into those, because he had those thin-

necked 60's. They're a bit thinner, the '58 and

'59 Standards have a denser wood back there,

or something. I do have a '59 that I use for a

few songs.

Let's talk about your sixth album, REO-- the

infamous "cow" album.

Everybody hates it, but I like it.

There's alot about it that echos Hi Infidelity.

Except for the production. That was our last time we used a producer. The guy hated us [laughs]. He didn't
like us, or anything about us. All he liked was the snare drum and the bass drum. I have always used
Marshalls in the studio, and he made me use a Fender Princeton, or something like that. He wanted me to
produce a real clean-sounding, which I can appreciate, but it wasn't me. It was Kevin's return to the band,
and it had some good songs on it, but I didn't play the way I wanted to on the album.

How would you characterize your musical evolution between the first and the sixth album?

I think that with the cow record, we got out of being just another bar band. Before this, we'd go into
rehearsals to work songs up and say, "Well, is this tune going to go over good in a bar?" But I really wanted
Kevin back, because I wanted us to be both acoustic and electric. I got that from "Stairway to Heaven," and
other Led Zeppelin songs where they'd start out quiet and then, all of the sudden, bam! The world opens up.
That's what we were going for on the cow album, but we just didn't have the production. The producer
wasn't the correct producer, so we fired him. Very rude of us [laughs].

So you were finally getting things together?

Well, we weren't together. We thought we were, but nobody else had any confidence in us. Especially with
that album; that's the least selling one we have, to date. It made us feel terrible, because Kevin had just come
back, and I was running around saying it sounded just like I wanted us to. And then, you know, it sold five
or six copies. When I listen to it now, it sounds to me like we were trying to be too much like the Eagles. It
was right when we moved to California, and we went overboard with the California sound, or whatever, and
stopped being a rock and roll band.