Kloepfers of Kappelwindeck, Germany

The following exchanges of e-mail were between William Wesley Kloepfer, Jr. and Dr. Thomas Mangos of Germany.

William Wesley Koepfer Jr. (e-mail WWKloepfer@aol.com)

Subject: Origin of Kloepfer Family #5 Jorge/Georg Kloepfer 1621-1711 from Kappelwindeck Germany-emails between Dr. Thomas J. Mangos of Germany and William Wesley Kloepfer Jr. originally of Winnetka Illinois

Dear Bill,

I recently came across the webpage about Klöpfer genealogy at http://members.aol.com/Rdkone/KResearchers.html.

Although I don't have Kloepfer among my direct ancestors, some Kloepfer have married into my family (Jost and Rapp), which basically have their origin in Buehl-Kappelwindeck and Buehl-Altschweier. Kloepfer still is a common name in Buehl-Kappelwindeck (I was born in Buehl).

I was wondering whether Kloepfer from Buehl-Moos came to Kappelwindeck in the early 17th century?

I have a Simon Kloepfer b abt 1805 Kappelwindeck, m Jun 26 1833 in Kappelwindeck Juliana Hoell.

Child:

a) Apollonia Kloepfer b Apr 19 1835, m Nov 16 1859 Severin Jost

Apollonia Kloepfer (a) b Apr 19 1835, m Nov 16 1859 Severin Jost

Children of Apollonia Kloepfer and Severin Jost

Sophie Jost b 1861

Rosa Jost b 1862

Karl Jost b 1864

Agnes Jost b 1866

I also have a Georg Kloepfer b abt 1698, m Nov 23 1723 Kappelw. Maria Salome Seiterich  Children:

a) Johann Kloepfer b 1726 Kappelw.

b) Franz Anton Kloepfer b 1729 Kappelw.

c) Johann Kloepfer b 1732 Kappelw.

d) Franz Joseph Kloepfer b 1736 Kappelw.

e) Maria Catharina Kloepfer b Nov 1 1738 Kappelw.

Maria Catharina Kloepfer (e) m Feb 5 1771 Kappelw. Johann Adam Rapp

Children:

Zacharias Rapp b 1776

Valentin Daniel Rapp b 1778

Does any of those names sound familiar to you?

Best regards

Thomas

Dr. Thomas J. Mangos

e-mail tjmangos@hotmail.com

Dear Bill,

thank you for your quick response about the Kloepfer matter.  Please, you don't need to address me Dr.

I was born in Buehl some 40 years ago and enjoyed the opportunity to work with the original church books at St. Maria Church in Kappelwindeck, down in the cold and dark basement of the rectory for several hours. I have done this while still at school, I was 15 years old then, so I was truly an amateur then with regard to ancestry research - however I was fortune enough to know how to read Latin.

Unfortunately, I left Buehl shortly after finishing school, which led me to Karlsruhe, Freiburg, Hannover, Philadelphia PA (that's where I learned a few words of English), since 1998 back in Germany, now in Berlin.

When I collected all the information about my ancestors I didn't recognize the Kloepfers in my family. So, I missed this chance to get more data. However, my grandmother remembered the two Kloepfer names to fill up some gaps.

The church books in Kappelwindeck have been completely destroyed in 1689 by a French army, having invaded Germany and destroying most cities on the east side of the Rhine valley starting in Heidelberg and its famous castle, down to Baden-Baden, Steinbach, Offenburg, also burning down Buehl and Kappelwindeck completely with only 3 or 4 houses left standing - this was the second time of almost complete destruction in the 17th century. So, registers in Buehl and Kappelwindeck start at 1691 the earliest. For Buehl a baptism record has been re-written going down to 1666 after inhabitants have been questioned by the new pastor in 1690.

I came across several names which indicate Kloepfers much earlier - there is also a family in Eisental and Buehlertal whose name was Klipfel or Klipfler or Khluepffell, which is also derived from Kloepfer - I assume - or the other way around.

A Martin Klipffell from Buehl is known from documents of 1617 and 1622, giving 12 and 30 Gulden (money), respectively, to the Margrave as a loan to pay to arm or rearm the soldiers for the upcoming 30years war - they didn't know in 1617, but surely in 1622 - however, they didn't know how long it will take.

(a pig cost about 4-12 Gulden at that time, 1 Ohm wine - about 150 liters or 40 Gallons was worth 12-16 Gulden) - a house started at 400 Gulden.

Another Martin Khluepffel in Liehenbach, Buehlertal gave 3 Ohm of wine (may be 3 barrel) in 1622 - 1622 was the first encounter of Buehl with the 30years war, which started in 1618.

There was also a Klaus Kluepffel from Buehlertal giving a loan of 14 Ohm wine and 18 quarters of cereals.

(I am sorry, I don't have any idea how much a quarter or quart (also known as a malter) of corn or wheat was then - may be twenty pounds, may be 100 pounds)

It is said that a Jakob Khluepffel from Altschweier lost 2 houses, 2 barns and 14 quarters of cereals, worth altogether 850 Gulden, after the catholics (Bavarians & Croats) burned down Buehl and surrounding villages, also many inhabitants were killed. Martin Khluepffel's widow lost 28 quarters of corn and several barrels of wine worth 150 Gulden. Klaus Khluepffel lost 12 quarters of corn and half a fuder of wine (abt 500 Gallons) worth 200 Gulden.

Then we have a Klaus Khlopfer from Altschweier, who was listed for 1500 Gulden for 2 damaged houses, burned down by the invading catholic army (Buehl and surrounding villages were protestants then, switching back to catholicism after destruction).

Besides 8 men dead in Altschweier the damages totalled 28,520 Gulden.

MOOS was also attacked in 1622, the document only tells us names and the losses:

Peter Floess 150 Gulden, Georg Schmalz 350, Jakob Singler 100, Peter Straub 150, Jakob Ochss 120, Joss Mayer 22, Urban Hartnagel 230, Michael Noeltner 200, Marzolf Reb 100, Matthias Burckhard 350, Matthias Noeltner 250 and Jakob Noeltner 50 Gulden. Also Klaus Noelter 200, Klaus Ochss 140, Hans Ochss 80, Hans Straub 100, Adam Burckhard 100, Jakob Hartnagel 40, Jakob Straub 120, Hans Jakob Straub 100, Klaus Friedmann 50, Hans Lausch 100, Hans Manz 30, Georg Volzss 50, Georg Noeltner 40, Jakob Ochss 100, Michael Leckh 120, Hans Noeltner 100, Jakob Noelter 40 and Andreas Blossuff 26 - altogether 3608 Gulden of damages. It seems no houses have been destroyed - otherwise the total would have been much higher.

Interestingly, there's no Kloepfer among the citizens of MOOS

There's also no Kloepfer in Kappelwindeck or any other village around, Vimbuch, Oberweier, Balzhofen, except Kluepfel in Altschweier and Buehlertal .

It is said that Moos has had about 150 inhabitants in 1622, altogether 30 families (5 members each - buest guess), which are all mentioned above - male adult inhabitants only.

Yes, I would love to see the video.

Thank you also for the information about Georg/Joerg Kloepfer from Vimbuch/Schwarzach.

I don't know any Kloepfer personally, but I remember that there is or was a toys/umbrellas/etc store/shop right across the street from the church in Kappelwindeck - was this a Kloepfer store?

Best regards

Thomas

Dear Dr. Thomas Mangos:

The following are my earliest traceable ancestors-Jorg Klopfer born Kappelwindeck 1621 died Schwarzach 14 Feb 1711 and wife Magaretha Noltner died Nov 1691

in Schwarzach.  Old Vimbuch church records show Gorg Klepfer was serf to Margrave in 1653 (after 30 year war all must be ordered new-also serfage). Jorg Klopfer came from

Kappelwindeck, that was the Margrave-District, 1700 Margrave (The serfage of Jorg to the Margrave was attested)

Margareth-Abbey serf. 1658 Abbey attestation. The children get the serfage of the mother.

We have concluded although my ancestors were from Moos Ulm Buehl that they first came from Kappekwindeck and eventually lost touch with the Kappelwindeck

Kloepfer/Klopfer"s. Many Klopfers stayed in Kappelwindeck.  I have a video tape of my father and my visit to Kappelwindeck Klopfers and our joint conclusion on the matter. I could send you a copy.  Kappelwindeck is mentioned as early as 1430.

Kappelwindeck was incorporated into the district city of Buehl in 1932, through the mutual consent of both towns

In the year 1392 - St. Maria, Earliest Catholic Church

Information Sources:

Kappelwindeck (Buehl)Catholicbirths, marriages and deaths: 1810-1870

Kappelwindeck (Kappelwindeck)

births and baptisms: 1691-1900

marriages: 1691-1900

deaths and burial: 1710-1900

confirmations: 1696-1710

family registry: 1696, 1700, 1710

I need Kappelwindeck records prior to 1622 but they don't appear to be available so that I can attach to other Kloepfer families from Kappelwindeck.

Thanks for sharing your interest with me.

Bill Kloepfer

WWKloepfer@aol.com

PS-The names in your letter are probably the Klopfers that stayed in Kappelwindeck and not the ones that migrated to Schwarzach or Moos.

Dear Bill,

yes, the quality of the jpeg you have sent is good and I was able to decipher 30% of that text in the first run - it takes some time before I get familiar with a script (sometimes months for handwriting) - your document is about a tax return about 30 Gulden and 5 Schilling for Geörg Klöpfer of Moos who pledged his house and barn in Moos for it (I don't know whether pledge is the right word) - description follows where the house exactly is located in Moos - neighborhood, etc. You surely do have that information already.

I would be happy to see your pedigree.

The Schwarzach abbey owned a lot of land in the area of Altschweier, Kappelwindeck, and especially Rittersbach. An abbey's vineyard in Rittersbach was assigned to one of my HABICH ancestors in early 1700.

About the manuscript you are talking about - yes, definitely, there is interest in Buehl about any original old document. Actually, most handwritten original are stored in Karlsruhe at the GLA with a high quality facsimile returned to the town's archive in Buehl - depending on the importance of the document. Michael Rumpf, a native from Kappelwindeck, is the town's historian, a professional mediavist (middle ages), who may be able not only to read most documents, but also to classify them - as far as I know Buehl as the former county seat of the Amt Buehl collects everything related to the old county, including Schwarzach, Greffern, Stollhofen.

The town's archive was originally located at Hindenburg square in Buehl, than was moved to a house in Hauptstrasse/Grabenstrasse in Buehl, and now seems to be located in Waldsteg castle in the village of Neusatz.

Michael Rumpf, Stadtgeschichtliches Institut, Schloss Waldsteg, 77815 Buehl

I am definitely interested in receiving a copy of the document you are talking about - may be I can assess the value, there's always a chance that the information is known to the historians from another copy, already spread through one of those annual history books about Buehl.

The only priest I know who actually wrote about Moos - as far as I know he was living in Moos - was the late Karl Reinfried, former pastor/vikar of Buehl, who also collected a tremendous amount of old documents, which were actually thought to have been lost in 1689. His "brief history of Buehl" published and printed in 1877 (abt 100 pages), was of great value to the town, although some of his conclusions have been proven to be wrong - in some cases he gave information, not mentioning the original source. I have attached a scan of the cover of his booklet to this mail - I am also lucky to be one of a few having an original print from that time; it is no booklet anymore, just single pages, close to destruction of the paper. May be, your document is the handwritten 1st version of the Moos history, which then became available as a print (I haven't heard about a booklet about Moos, though).

I just came across a text about a community order for Kappelwindeck from 1660 - a Daniel Klepfer is mentioned as one of the twelve town's representatives.

My family tree in the meantime has reached about 10000 entries, most of them from Altschweier, Buehlertal, Kappelwindeck and Neusatz - interestingly, almost non from the Rhine plains - a few names from Unzhurst, some from Schwarzach, i.e. Johann Moser = Hecken miller from Stollhofen, Michael Zeller from Schwarzach, Johann Georg Schaetzel from Schwarzach, Michael Zehe from Soellingen.

Sincerely

Thomas

Where exactly is Azusa? I spent a couple of weeks in the L.A. area, but mostly in Santa Barbara. Family from Altschweier has settled there, emigrating to the USA in 1849 via St. Louis MO.

Dear Thomas,

Very interesting information in your E-mail.

I need to explain to you that my father William Wesley Kloepfer , born in Winnetka Illinois (near Chicago) died in August 2000. He had spent his life working the Kloepfer Genealogy and history. He lived in Azusa California which is near Pasadena California (known for the Rose Parade). He left my mother Mary Kloepfer who is 90 years old and in poor heath. So I left my job after a stroke to take care of her in Azusa and spend all but one day a month in Azusa. That is the contact info that I sent to you. My home is in San Diego California (near the Mexican border) but I'm never there accept for one day a month.

The manuscript copy is there in San Diego and it is written in hand by Karl Reinfried and may very well be the original manuscript copy to the book cover you sent. Next time I go to San Diego I will send you a copy of the first page so we can see if it is the same. I think I remembered seeing the klopfer name a few times in the manuscript but I don't read German and particularly old German.

I have met and worked with Michael Rump on the Klopfer issue. He may have a book published by my father entitled "Kloepfer and More". The book should also be in Moos Dionis Church and a library around there.

I am attaching a copy of our pedigree which is in the above mentioned book and which leads down to my father.

I will have to make you a copy of the previously mentioned video and send it to you at a later time.

Sincerely,

Bill Kloepfer

WWKloepfer@aol.com

Dear Bill,

Thank you very much for the jpg-prologue of your family tree.

I wasn't really sure about you and your father - he seemed to have put a lot of his time into the Kloepfer family history, but from the information I have received so far through your e-mail, you seem to be involved too pretty heavily in what your father has started? How comes?

When I started with family research some 25 years ago, nobody else in the family seemed to be interested in ancestry, not even writing down the most important names (the only exception was the obligatory family tree done during the 3rd Reich). However, my mother and my grandmother seemed to talk about family affairs all day long, quite typically for a farmer's family, which used to be working in the fields entertaining themselves while picking plums, grapes or the like.

I started with ancestry on my own when I found several letters in my grandma's drawer written around 1890 by a son of somebody from the family who has emigrated to St.Louis MO after the civil war in 1849; his German was quite bumpy, but still old German script. Families lost contact in the late 1920ies.

So far, I haven't used any help from others and I am already wondering who could take over my database in 20-30 years.

I felt in love with California in the early 1990ies (Sacramento, San Francisco, Santa Barbara, L.A. and San Diego), however, no legal way to stay there. Even working in Pennsylvania from 1995-98 at the USDA as a chemist was limited for a maximum of 4 years. Anyway, Berlin is well worth living.

Unfortunately, I make it to Bühl only once in one or two years over a weekend - no way to visit an archive or talk to somebody like Michael Rumpf.

The cover page I've sent you, is from a booklet about the history of the town of Bühl - I assume your manuscript is about a different topic. Karl Reinfried most probably wrote several manuscript, only one of them was printed as a independant booklet, because interest was big enough from the Bühler and Kappler inhabitants. Interest for Moos eventually wasn't that big, so may be your manuscript never made it to an indenpendant print - the manuscript might contain unique information not known to others; however, I assume that hand-written copies exist in the town's archive. In almost any text (newspapers, etc) about the history of Bühl or the monastery of Schwarzach Karl Reinfried is cited. His manuscripts may also have appeared in various volumes about the history of the state of Baden - at least I came across a reference stating: K. Reinfried: Zur Geschichte des Gebietes der ehemaligen Abtei Schwarzach am Rhein, in Freiburger Diözesan-Archiv - FDA - 20 (1989); 22 (1892) - about the history of the area of the former abbey of Schwarzach at the Rhine banks, published in various volumes and archived in Freiburg.

I just came across a newspaper article from 1967 about Karl Reinfried (50th death anniversary) - it is said that he published more than 200 articles about the history of his home area, not included the manuscripts and pieces of papers found at his home in Moos, where he worked as a pastor for 30 years.

Take care

Thomas

Dr. Thomas J. Mangos

tjmangos@hotmail.com

Hi,

I just came home from work.

Your letter actually shows two data, first one is July 23, 1668 (left), the other May 17, 1602 (bottom).

To me, the letter was written in 1602, an additional note was added later indicating that something happened to the house (or the letter) in 1668 - I don't think it is 1658.

I am not really sure, it seems that the note at the bottom left hand is a different handwriting. The information doesn't make sense to me yet - it turns out that either the house that was taken as a deposit/pledge burned down together with the one owned by Martin Lienhardt - or the original letter was lost.

This is what I can read so far:

Täxliche Ablösige Zinss Taxable deduction of interest

... Pfingsten ... whitsun

Geörg Klöpfer zue Moos ... Geörg Klöpfer of Moos ...

Hanns ...öst der Stabhalter, ... Hanns ... the mayor ...

Ihme Clauß Fridtmann außer together with Clauß Fridtmann

dreyßig gulden fünfzehn schilling thirty gulden fifteen schilling

capital 15 30 capital 15 30

verpfändet pledged

Ein Behausung, Hovfreithin sambt ... a house, a barn, including

... ...

... einseit neben ... andere ... one side next to ... other

seit Jacob ... side next to Jacob ... ... ...

Klöpfer der zinß... Klöpfer ...

Brieffs Antanos Sek Hanß Scholer Letters ... Sekretary? Hans Scholer

Bürger zu Mooß und mit Ihme Joh Z... Citizen of Moos, together with

... datiert auf den dated

17 May Anno 1602 ... May 17 1602

den 23. July 1668 July 23 1668

mit anderem Brieff with another letter

verbrannt sampt burned together

Martin Lienhardt Martin Lienhardt

des Be... the ...'s

... Behausung ... house

It probably will take time to get to know the meaning behind the document.

May be the house was given to somebody else in 1602 and Georg Kloepfer took it over in 1668, assuming that he had also to take over the debts his predecessor has collected over the years, even though the house was burned down during the war.

My father who was born 1931 was tought this old German script at school age 7, than in 1938/39 script was switched to present day's script by law - so he later was able to read both scripts. Here we have an odd handwriting in combination with a lot of names and tax terminology. Most Germans have big problems reading this script, me too.

The only Kloepfer I know being involved in Third Reich politics was Gerhard Kloepfer, responsible for constitutional law, may be this is the reason why he represented Bormann. I don't know the movie you are talking about.

Dr. Gerhard Klopfer (1905 - 1987)

Born in Schreibersdorf, Schlesien (= Silesia, today Poland), son of a farmer. High school, 1923, studied law and economics in Jena and Breslau, 1927 Dr. jur., 1931 judge in Dusseldorf. Entered NSDAP and SA in April 1933, Trainee in the ministry of agriculture, 1934 Gestapo. 1935 joined staff of Hitler's deputy, Rudolf Hess - 1935 member of SS, 1938 ministry offical responsible for the expropriation of jewish businesses (he was a bureaucrat) - also responsible for questions about races and folklore, mixed marriages between Germans and Jews, general questions about occupation of foreign states. He fled from Berlin 1945, later imprisoned, Nuremberg process - minor guilt. Released from jail in 1949. In 1956 he became a counselor of law in the city of Ulm (Baden-Wuerttemberg). Preliminary proceedings by the district attorney of Ulm in 1962 because of Kloepfer's participation in the Wannsee conference - case dismissed. Kloepfer died in 1987 - enclosed a photograph.

I hope this is of help to you

Best regards

Thomas

I received the video tape yesterday and had the change to get it running today. No problem with NTSC.

Very nice and informative, but also good for education. You and your father seemed to act like professional researchers having all the technical video equipment, questioning people, even understanding the language, at least partially. This is clearly a sign of identification with a hobby.

It was good to hear the old dialect from the area. What seems to be like background noise in some sequences from people not in the focus of the camera, sounded like true information in German. However, it is obvious that interest in family research is not so big in Germany, although people were very friendly and warm, even without understanding English, which is quite common for the area of the SW.

I hope everything is o.k. with your mother?

It was obvious during your visit in Kappel that you have tried to get a connection to the early Kappelwindeck Klöpfers. However, without any written documents, this may be hard to proof.

I just stumbled across a few names of Klöpfers in Kappelwindeck, from a document of 1700, when a large number of people were confirmated by the bishop from Strassburg. I assume that those who got confirmated were age 14-20, but partially also older - however, no further information about that.

Johann Jakob Klöpfer from Kappelwindeck

Johann Georg Klöpfer from Kappelwindeck

Catharina Klöpfer from Kappelwindeck

Anna Klöpfer from Kappelwindeck as a witness

The first three could have been brothers and sisters, Anna as a witness could have been an older sister or mother of the aforementioned.

In your video you asked for the name Burkhard, which is also written Burkart, Burgert, etc in other documents. Burkart is a common name in the area, especially in the Bühlertal. However, as Burkhard in the middle ages was frequently used as a first name, it may appear in many towns and villages as a first name.

One thing that came into my mind reading more literature about Altschweier and Kappelwindeck in the past few days.

It was quite common in those days of the 16th, 17th, and 18th century to have so-called renovations of ownership, once in a century, meaning that somebody had a contract with an aristocrat family or a monastery about the ownership of certain pieces of land, houses, mills, which they actually were allowed to give to their sons and grandsons or even sell it to others, completely or partially, as long as the annual fee was paid.

I came across an example similar to yours that actually said that due to the war the original document has vanished, but the people who followed the first owner, may be even without knowledge of the first owner, because he has died long ago, have been 'kindly' asked by the monastery also to pay the old annual fees that were placed upon the property and weren't paid for many years during the war, even not knowing the exact amount that was recorded in the original contract.

Sometimes, a compromise was reached about the old fees, especially when it was clear that the property wasn't used, may be because the initial owners left without further notice, leaving the property behind or because the property was damaged and not in use.

These kind of renovations of course included the original documents, with the new owners actually added to those names on the original documents who have signed the initial contract.

The monastery of Schwarzach owned many properties in the area of the Alsace and Baden. As they needed wine as a daily beverage they also owned several vineries and vinyards in the area of Bühl and Kappelwindeck, most probably headed by someone originating from Bühl or Kappelwindeck, because you needed certain skills to make wine. So, Klöpfers originating from Kappel, may have travelled once in a while to Schwarzach to deliver the wine the monastery received as a fee, which somehow resulted in links between people on the way to Schwarzach, Moos being somewhere in the middle, a nice place to have a short stop, ultimately resulting in a marriage between Klöpfer and Nöltner.

Dr. Thomas J. Mangos  tjmangos@hotmail.com

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